INT: Let's get these GUILD ones, when did you first join?
AP: '57. [INT: What did you join for?] LEFT HANDED GUN. The GUILD had not been joined by television people. I never in my life felt that was the best thing the GUILD did. [INT: Who sponsored you?] I don’t recall I needed one, it might have been FRED ZINNEMANN who I knew casually but liked so much.

INT: Were there any notable directors active in the GUILD when you joined, took an interest in you?
AP: Oh sure, there was still the residue of the MCCARTHY period, JOE MANKIEWICZ was there. I didn’t have occasion to be active. I left after that film and went to theater with five or six plays in a row. [INT: When you came back for THE CHASE and there were power battles, did you turn to the GUILD at that point?] No, it didn't occur to me. [INT: Have you ever had the GUILD fight your battle?] I think it's a wonderful GUILD, I am nothing but proud of it. It's humane. Good track record of good behavior. There were scoundrels everywhere, CECIL B. DEMILLE, but there was JACK FORD. Stood up and stood him down. MANKIEWICZ, pretty good group.

INT: As a sideline, have you heard about this DALTON TRUMBO evening on Monday, six Mondays in a row, ED HARRIS did the first one, TIM ROBBINS, ALEC BALDWIN, CHRIS COOPER, extracts of his letter with his son. if you have an evening free go see it.

AP: There were a lot of guys who followed their conscience during that exceedingly ugly period. I saw FRED COE, we were in the middle of the television business. We kept putting people on and there would be screens. We did it.

INT: What about committee work?
AP: Now I have. I have to confess I'm a lousy GUILD member, I've never done enough. [INT: Do you feel you can't affect things?] I do, but I got caught up in the theater. I was also running the ACTORS STUDIO for six painful years. A lot of work in the theater community that made it difficult for me to be in the GUILD. Not committed enough. [INT: I think you can feel clear.]

INT: What GUILD issues do you think are the most important?
AP: I think that there are things they cant fight for, that would be a great blessing if they could. Final cut, getting directors the ability to carry the film beyond the directors cut. I keep saying whose cut is that. If this is the director's cut, tell me who is responsible. It's committee. It's difficult. I think the GUILD has, in terms of health benefits, help to membership, help to people with bad experiences, it has been wonderful.

INT: Do you feel the GUILD has changed radically since it joined?
AP: Yes, it changed when it brought the people in, television directors and unit managers. I'm not sure we all belong in the same GUILD, to this day. I think we are there and the guild is helpful in many respects. The issues that form around a director and the immediate people are very different for unit managers. That's not been the best event, except that there was a true necessity to give these people some kind of place to be. We were fearful of getting a competitive GUILD.

INT: What would you advice a young director now?
AP: Join, don’t even think about it otherwise.

INT: Can you give advice to, you know the development hell. All those projects, the book you're reading, for every movie you make there are six corpses, how do you deal with that?
AP: Not at all well. It's painful. LITTLE BIG MAN took me six years to get it made. That's when I was riding BONNIE AND CLYDE, I couldn't get the picture. The idea of a picture being sympathetic to the Indians was anathema. Hollywood production people never gave me an honest budget. Point of fact, there were several budgets in excess of 10 and 12 million dollars, the picture came in at nine. Pure distortion. The money was censoring. It was the period of civil rights, no question of it.

INT: How did you, with this incredible run from MICKEY ONE to LITTLE BIG MAN doing one a year, the break between THE STORY BREAKS FOUR FRIENDS and LITTLE BIG MAN NIGHT MOVES, were you consciously stepping back?
AP: Yes, and also being a parent. It’s a little matter of having two children. You're not an at-home father. Your attention is entirely elsewhere. My kids are very forthright. They came to me and said, “You're not doing a good job. You're not much of a father.” [INT: Is MATT elder?] He's the elder by three years. They said they missed me, they don't see me. It was like the time when I was doing the five or six shows on Broadway, it was a different theater each night. I thought it was the jackpot, except you can't have kids to do that. I took time off, toured at YALE. I started out to teach film to post grad students who had made film. Sooner rather than later I realized they didn't know anything about acting. I got the actors from LONE WOLF and gave them a scene. YALE was so rich they had a complete television studio and full time engineer. We would shoot first thing in the morning, then look at it, then shoot again. Extraordinary to watch the change. [INT: Was this part of YALE drama?] No, the school of architecture, BOB BRUSTEIN was head of drama and would have none of it.

INT: Two last questions, people say your movies are allegories about Vietnam or something, do you think of that when planning a movie, or do you think those resonances come out?
AP: I trust that those resonances will be there because they're in my head. Whether I consciously associate those with them, they are there. All good films exist in an environment. The most denuded of BEGMAN'S films are naked because of the quality of the environment. I think every film should have a social correlation. I can't make a movie as a cave man or astronaut, I can only make it as I am now. That's all you have, use it.

INT: Last question, if you had to pick, three partnerships within your film life, actors or technicians, what would the three be that are most memorable?
AP: The first would be FRED COE, second would be WARREN BEATTY - [INT: What is it about WARREN that is so stimulating? You don't make REDS unless you have passion and intelligence, is he radically intelligent?] Yes. He is intelligent, not wonderfully educated. [INT: Beyond street smarts.] Yes, he became a scholar on the movie business very young. When I met him, it was through a friend, he said what are you going to make? He said he wanted to be in it. I gave him the script, he said, “This is terrible.” I said, “Do you want out?” And he said no. I asked why? He said he figured that the best thing an actor can do is work with good directors. “I've picked KAZAN and you.” He wanted to be in there, around the guys who did it. The truth about WARREN was he was a scholar of a man named CHARLIE FELDMAN, powerful agent, producer, and then more. Manipulator of all of the power aspects of high priced business. WARREN got aced out of something by CHARLIE FELDMAN. Instead of harboring a grudge he wanted to know how he did it. Apparently, none of this I ever witnessed, he was with CHARLIE 'til CHARLIE died in the hospital. The one friend CHARLIE had. What has resided ever since is a really clear knowledge of the structure and balance of movie and studio. All of that, he knows better than anybody I know. Better than MIKE OVITZ, anybody you can name. He learned from the best. He is an astute guy.

INT: In the actor-director relationship, did he?
AP: He resisted me quite a few times, but there is the other streak in WARREN of real decency. If we are impossibly in disagreement, you have to prevail because I'm working on your movie. He has enough respect for the order that chaos would be the worst possible solution. He was working with people he admired, was sure learning.

INT: One more pick if you have any?
AP: I'm sentimental and I'll say BRANDO. I loved his smartness about people. When we were on THE CHASE, I got into smoking cigars. MARLON said to me, “Why don’t you live out of here and make movies? You go back to New York all the time.” I said, “I don't like this place, I don't like the studios.” He said, “You'll see, one day you'll be sitting in your chair and someone will hand you a martini and maybe you will stay out here.” I said, “Naw, that wont happen.” I used to bring my own cigars to the set, one day I forgot. No great concern of mine. When I finished shooting I sat down and the prop man came up with a box and handed me one. There was BRANDO, smiling away. Incredible guy. Amazing.

INT: Well, thank you very much, it's been a pleasure.
AP: It's been wonderful.